Author Topic: Problems with the Wiccan Rede  (Read 5711 times)

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Offline Pseudonaja

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Re: Problems with the Wiccan Rede
« Reply #15 on: April 16, 2008, 05:27:46 pm »
I'd say it's propaganda, pretty much none of his arguments make sense.
Make a point just to make a point?
Proven company politics tactic in there. Be the guy in the meeting that keeps talking, even if you don't make sense, and people will think you know what you're talking about...

Offline Reft Soul

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Re: Problems with the Wiccan Rede
« Reply #16 on: April 16, 2008, 09:43:02 pm »
Fact of the matter is........... WHO THE  :censor:  CARES!?

That person can stick those words up their arsehole as deep as it can go!

Offline GypsyRaven

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Re: Problems with the Wiccan Rede
« Reply #17 on: June 02, 2008, 08:02:57 pm »
Okay, I'd like to make it clear that I do not support the original post here and side with this point making pointer.... But the Wiccan Rede is kinda the reason I myself do not suscribe to Wicca.

I just feel that A few ppl got on the wagon here say 60+ years ago, not to say what they did ment nothing. Hell, they made witchcraft in the sense of the word acceptable to the general public! Otherwise we'd probably still be burnt today!

I feel its a little too commercialised for my tastes, but I really like a lot of the wording and yes, It does promote good morals etc. And also maybe a few of the words could be customised for us living here in the southern hemisphere, I mean really, us living in Cape Town here... "When the wind blows from the south, Love will kiss you on the mouth"... There sure is a lotta loving going on here when the doctor comes around and stays up to 2 weeks lol. Tho I realise that alot of it holds tru in the spiritual sene and not everything to be taken physically and at face value.

Prehaps this could be further discussed or a little light shed here? Heck! maybe I'm off the beaten track :p
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Offline FyreByrde

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Re: Problems with the Wiccan Rede
« Reply #18 on: June 05, 2008, 04:42:54 pm »
So, if you're not Wiccan, what would you term yourself?

Also...as far as I can tell, the majority of members on this board do not enjoy the concept of "Commercialised Wicca", at least I don't think they do... :erm: In fact, I have only really met American Wiccans who go full-out for the "buy buy buy" mentality. (Just remember: A Torah would cost about R30 000. And that'll put our book-prices in perspective. :wink: )

Anyway...Wicca is not meant to be about getting the ritual exactly perfect, or how shiny your athame is, or whether you have a quartz-encrusted birchwood wand, or whether or not you practice skyclad...it's about how you feel, spiritually, and about attuning to the Lord and Lady, and about aligning with the Earth.

The Rede itself is a sort of memory-poem which gives advice, ritual forms, the Sacred trees, and what we do with them, the basic times for rituals, and recognition of the Lord and Lady and the four guardians, as well as a basic set of ethics regarding animals, and fellow human.
But, the final line is the most important. And this is what we're really debating: Is it actually possible to Harm None, in anything we do, and how do we define "Harm None."?
But, bear in mind: Wicca does not have a solid Doctrine. the Rede is not written in stone, although it appears that pretty much all of us agree that it is good advice, and a good ethic to have.

And essentially this guy that Re@P quoted, was coming off as though he were an authority on the workings of all Wiccans, based on his own circle of friends, and not only that, but talking himself into corners, without bothering to think further, to figure the way out.

Sorry...I guess that was a mini-rant. :blush:
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Zephyr

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Re: Problems with the Wiccan Rede
« Reply #19 on: June 05, 2008, 05:43:45 pm »
I guess most of us are Eclectic to some great extent...

Offline Tombe

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Re: Problems with the Wiccan Rede
« Reply #20 on: June 05, 2008, 09:31:42 pm »
. (Just remember: A Torah would cost about R30 000. And that'll put our book-prices in perspective. :wink: )
Speaking of, why are tarot cards so bloody expensive?

Offline Bee

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Re: Problems with the Wiccan Rede
« Reply #21 on: June 05, 2008, 09:42:04 pm »
Because just like book prices, anything else a publisher sells are expensive. 
Darkness does not always equate evil, just as light does not always brings good.

Offline GypsyRaven

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Re: Problems with the Wiccan Rede
« Reply #22 on: June 05, 2008, 10:32:07 pm »
Hmmm. I term myself as pagan really. I follow the Teutonic (spelling?) Traditions, i suppose my thing with the rede is that its a northern hemisphere text (childish i knw,sorry), and that things are different here... Wind direction, cyclone direction and clockwise directions change...sorry i'm probably just your typical virgo, but its all intention that counts i knw.
I also dnt feel right about that the term wicca is not even 100 years old, i feel magic has roots in ancient times and traditions, y did they have to change and add things? Y couldn't have kept things the way they where. I understand that times are changing and magic must evolve to keep with the times, and so it is. I chose to follow one of the untouched trads, one in which (to the best of my knowledge) i have hereditary roots in. Pls dnt think me wrong or better, but wiccans do some of the best magic i knw and have fantastic rituals.  I myself can't subscribe to it.
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Offline GothicRavenGoddess

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Re: Problems with the Wiccan Rede
« Reply #23 on: June 06, 2008, 12:29:46 am »
but the Rede is more than just a few words.

its a whole lot more than that!

One version:

Bide ye the Wiccan Laws ye must.
In perfect love and perfect trust.
Ye must live and let live,
Fairly take and fairly give.

Cast the circle thrice about,
To keep unwelcome spirits out.
To bind the spell well every time,
Let the spell be spoken in rhyme.

Soft of eye and light of touch,
Speak ye little and listen much.
Deosil go by waxing moon,
Chanting out the Wiccan runes.

Widdershins go by waning moon,
Chanting out the baneful tune.
When her Lady's moon is new,
Kiss the hand to Her times two.

When the moon rides at Her peak,
Then the hearts desire seek.

Heed the North winds mighty gale,
Lock the door and trim the sail.

When the wind comes from the South,
Love will kiss thee on the mouth.

When the Moor wind blows from the West,
Departed spirits have no rest.

When the winds blow from the East,
Expect the new and set the feast.

Nine woods in the cauldron go,
Burn them quick and burn them slow.
Elder be the Lady's tree,
Burn it not or cursed ye'll be.

When the wheel has turned to Yule,
Light the log and the Horned One rule.
Heed ye flower, bush, and tree,
By the Lady, Blessed Be!

Where the rippling waters go,
Cast a stone and the truth to know.
When Ye have and hold a need,
Hearken not the other's greed.

With a fool no season's spend,
Or be counted as his friend.

Merry meet and merry part,
Bright the cheeks and warm the heart.
Mind the threefold law ye should,
Three times bad and Three times good.

When misfortune is enow,
Wear the blue star on thy brow.
True in love ye must ever be,
Lest thy love be false to thee.

These words the Wiccan Rede fulfill,
And ye harm none do what ye will.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
another version:

Bide the Wiccans laws ye must,
In perfect love and perfect trust.
Live and let live,
Fairly take and fairly give.

If you wish to live and thrive,
Let the spider run alive.
If ye would clear the path to will,
Be certain the mind be still.

'Tis by Sun that life be won,
And by the Moon that change be done.
Cast the circle thrice about
To keep unwelcomed spirits out.

What good be tools without inner light;
What good be magick without wisdom-sight?
To bind the spell everytime,
Let the spell be spoken in ryhme.

Soft of eye and light of touch,
Speak ye little, listen much.
Deosil go by waxing Moon,
Sing and dance the Wiccan Rune.

Widdershins go when the Moon doth wane,
And the werewolf howls by the dread wolfsbane.
When the Lady's Moon is new,
Kiss the hand to Her times two.

When the Moon rides at Her peak,
Then your heart's desire seek.
Heed the North Wind's mighty gale,
Drop the lock and trim the sail.

When the Wind comes from the South,
Love will kiss thee on thy mouth.
When the Wind comes from the East,
Expect the new and set the feast.
When the West Wind blows o'er thee,

Departed spirits, restless be.
Nine woods in the cauldron go,
Burn them quick and burn them slow.
Oak in the forest towers with might,
In the fire, it brings the God's insight.

Rowan is a tree of power,
Causing life and magick to flower.
Willows at the waterside stand,
Ready to help us to your Summerland.

Hawthorn is burned to purify,
And draw faerie to the eye.
Hazel, the tree of wisdom and learning,
Add its strength to the bright fire burning.

White are the flowers of Apple tree
That brings us fruits of fertility.
Grapes grow upon the vine,
Giving us both joy and wine.

Fir does mark the evergreen
To represent immortality seen.
Elder be ye Lady's tree,
Burn it not, or cursed ye'll be.

As the old year starts to wane,
The new begins, it's now Samhain.
When the Wheel has turned a Yule,
Lighty the log and let the Horned God rule.

When the time for Candlemas shows,
Watch for flowers through the snows.
In the Spring, when night equals day,
Time for Ostara to come our way.

The When the Wheel begins to turn,
Let the Beltane fires burn.
When the Sun has reached its height,
Time for Oak and Holly to fight.

As the Wheel turns to Lammas night,
Power is brought to magick rite.
Harvesting comes to one and all,
When Mabon does fall.

Heed ye flower, bush, or tree,
By the Lady, Blessed be!
By the rippling waters go,
Cast a stone and truth ye'll know.

When you are in dire need,
Hearken not to others' greed.
With the fool no season spend,
Or be counted as his friend.

Merry Meet and Merry Part,
Bright the cheeks and warm the heart.
When misfortune is enow,
Wear the blue star on thy brow.

Stay true in love ever be,
Lest thy lover's false to thee.
Mind the three-fold law ye should,
Three times bad and three times good.

Eight words the Wiccan Rede fulfill:
An it harm none, do as ye will!
Just call me AJ. <3

Offline FyreByrde

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Re: Problems with the Wiccan Rede
« Reply #24 on: June 06, 2008, 04:18:01 pm »
@GypsyRaven: By Teutonic, do you mean the Germans or the Norsemen? (If the latter, you might want to look into Asatru.)....but also: isn't being 'Teutonic' a Northern Hemisphere thing? *raises eyebrows*
Yes the Rede is a Northern Hemisphere text...so is the Torah, so are pretty much every holy book ever written. By your own admission, you practice traditions which developed in the north of Europe.
Also, didn't I just say that the Rede wasn't set in stone? It might interest you to know that quite a few Southern Hemisphere Wiccans switch the circle opening and closing directions round among other things, and you must surely have noticed that we are about to celebrate Yule, which - if we wanted to be completely purist about things - would have happened in December, regardless of season. But we don't...because we're in the Southern Hemisphere.

And finally: Wicca, as a religion is, yes, less than a hundred years old. However, the traditions upon which it is based are the very same "ancient traditions" you refer to.
The term itself is derived from an old Gaelic word, Wica which was used as a title for a wise-woman, and which is most certainly older than a hundred years.

The reason nothing can remain the way it was, is because quite a lot of it was lost during the persecution. Covens lost contact with one another, Books were destroyed out of necessity...
The fact is....nobody alive actually practices the Old Religion, or any of the other European religions as they were practiced in Ancient Times.
So, instead of changing the Old Way, Wicca is an attempt to preserve what is left.
There is a curse.                                                                      

They say:
May you live in Interesting Times.                             
                                                                                                     
~ Terry Pratchett ~


          
Jesus owns and wears a bracelet that reads: "WWRD?"         Fear the Koekemoer

Offline GypsyRaven

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Re: Problems with the Wiccan Rede
« Reply #25 on: June 06, 2008, 04:41:45 pm »
Thx FyreByrde, perhaps I came accross as  :blush: not sure.

 Your points are very valid, maybe I'm just being stubbon. No matter how I want things to be the way I want them, they never will be. The reason I follow the Teutonic traditions is that (so far I can tell) my family comes from Northern England and there is rumer in the family that further North relatives exsist. So I have a tendency to (obligation?) follow those ways and lore. I find it quite appealing. But yes, seeing that we are in the Southern Hemi, we need to practice and celebrate in accordence with the seasons...It took me quite a while (and mental beating up) to come to terms on how I want to go about celebrating my chosen path.

I see your point that Wicca is a religion based on what was left of witchcraft and tradition. In that light I suppose it makes a whole lot more sense than that of my fragmented perception was seeing.

Thx.
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Offline Taliesin

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Re: Problems with the Wiccan Rede
« Reply #26 on: June 06, 2008, 05:14:12 pm »
Farther north than Northern England is Scotland. There you'll find the remnants of the Pictish, Celtic, and, of course, Gaelic traditions. None of these are Teutonic except inasmuch as the Celts were a precursor people to the Teutons of Germany. If you mean Viking, that's different.

One of the big differences between the Tuatha'an and the Sea Folk was the choice of writing material. The Sea Folk used bone and stone. The Tuatha'an used things that returned to the cycle far faster. They used minds and hearts and leaves. Both are people of the Tree of Life, however. Interestingly, from what I've seen, so are Jews.

@FyreByrde: Erm, "Nobody alive actually practices the Old Religion". I would say that is not true. The outer forms may have changed but in some the core remains. The core is what matters.
Lauda tu Taliesin audacem et splendidum. :smile:

Offline FyreByrde

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Re: Problems with the Wiccan Rede
« Reply #27 on: June 06, 2008, 06:13:11 pm »
@GypsyRaven: Look, I understand where you're coming from. I'm also a child of the Old Way, but I was unfortunate, in that none of my mother's family actually realised what we are. (NG Kerk, the lot of them) Not even my mother realised what she was teaching me, as regards the respect of the Earth, and the moral codes she instilled in me, and unfortunately, my education was far from complete, simply because of the information that had been lost. (For the record, my ancestry, through my mother's mother's mother traces back to Wales.)
It was only after I picked up a Scott Cunningham book at the age of twelve and began reading, that I realised I knew exactly what he was trying to teach me, because my mother had already done so. Because of this, I mistakenly believed that I had been raised somewhat Wiccan, and that Wicca was as old as the traditions that had been taught me.
It was only last year that I realised that Wicca was very young, and that what I had been raised in was in fact much older. It took me three months to come to terms with the idea that Wicca was just as valid. Three months ago, I finally came to the decision to actively practise Wicca, as it stands now.
One of things I rather enjoy about Wicca is that it does evolve, as the knowledge of mankind evolves, without losing its Nature-bound roots.

I think you are very strongly Virgo, though. :wink:
At any rate, do you not think that, as a tenet, "An ye harm none, do as ye will." Is a reasonable rule to follow, in terms of ethics?

@Taliesin: Understood, however I think GypsyRaven's issue is with the outer traditions, which in certain cases make the Old Religion appear as something quite different, despite the basic core remaining intact.
There is a curse.                                                                      

They say:
May you live in Interesting Times.                             
                                                                                                     
~ Terry Pratchett ~


          
Jesus owns and wears a bracelet that reads: "WWRD?"         Fear the Koekemoer