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Offline krustallos

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The elements
« on: June 29, 2009, 01:55:56 PM »
Just a little thought of mine I'd like to share... 

The classic esoteric notion of the four elements (namely earth, water, air and fire) correspond to the scientific states of matter namely solids, liquids, gas and plasma except that the states of matter are a superset of the four elements.  That is to say all water is a liquid but not all liquids are water.  All fires are plasma but not all plasma is fire.

 8-)
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Offline Re@PeR

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Re: The elements
« Reply #1 on: June 29, 2009, 05:46:27 PM »
I guess that's why Alchemy was considered science before modern science took over?
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Offline Ameniatha

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Re: The elements
« Reply #2 on: July 02, 2009, 07:55:42 AM »
I have been reading in Ellen Dugan's book Cottage Witchery that sometimes one can also use the Chinese idea of elements (metal, wood etc) and this is quite interesting as she actually mentions both, or the use of both when doing magick work.
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Offline Bee

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Re: The elements
« Reply #3 on: July 02, 2009, 08:09:23 AM »
Quote from: Ameniatha on July 02, 2009, 07:55:42 AM
I have been reading in Ellen Dugan's book Cottage Witchery that sometimes one can also use the Chinese idea of elements (metal, wood etc) and this is quite interesting as she actually mentions both, or the use of both when doing magick work.


It makes sense. 

But something I've wondered about is, if wood is also considered an "element" wouldn't flesh also be one?  Since wood carries the life force of a plant, flesh carries ours?  In a way.
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Offline Ameniatha

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Re: The elements
« Reply #4 on: July 02, 2009, 08:43:05 AM »
I don't know really.. interesting question..
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Offline Zephyr

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Re: The elements
« Reply #5 on: July 02, 2009, 09:23:01 AM »
Wood and metal are both 'Earth' IMHO... Flesh is.... erm. er.... Spirit in physical form??? eish!!! IDK  :biggrin:
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Offline Ameniatha

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Re: The elements
« Reply #6 on: July 02, 2009, 09:57:44 AM »
are there other definitions of elements that are used when working magick, or do most practitioners just use the usual four ???
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Offline Zephyr

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Re: The elements
« Reply #7 on: July 02, 2009, 10:27:15 AM »
5 actually, Fire, air, Earth, water and the 5th rose.... ermm, sorry,  :lol: element, is Spirit aka Akasha
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Offline Oldsoul

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Re: The elements
« Reply #8 on: July 02, 2009, 09:45:15 PM »
Old Chinese was three elements, wood, fire, metal.
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Offline krustallos

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Re: The elements
« Reply #9 on: July 03, 2009, 09:30:27 AM »
I'm using the four states of matter now as they are a superset of the elements.
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                           Earth my body
                            Water my blood
                          Air my breath and
                           Fire my spirit

           ____________________________________________

"The gross feeder is a man in the larva state; and there are whole nations in that
 condition, nations without fancy or imagination, whose vast abdomens betray them."
- H.D. Thoreau, Walden, ca. 1850

Offline Grifthin

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Re: The elements
« Reply #10 on: July 03, 2009, 10:30:11 AM »
Air, Earth, Water, Fire, Aether.

I suppose you could use Flesh as a analogue for Aether which would explain why blood is such a powerful component.
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Offline krustallos

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Re: The elements
« Reply #11 on: July 03, 2009, 02:01:59 PM »
I'm struggling to get to grips with Aether, especially after Michelson-Morley's work... what exactly is it?

Quote from: Grifthin on July 03, 2009, 10:30:11 AM
Air, Earth, Water, Fire, Aether.


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                           Earth my body
                            Water my blood
                          Air my breath and
                           Fire my spirit

           ____________________________________________

"The gross feeder is a man in the larva state; and there are whole nations in that
 condition, nations without fancy or imagination, whose vast abdomens betray them."
- H.D. Thoreau, Walden, ca. 1850

Offline Bee

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Re: The elements
« Reply #12 on: July 03, 2009, 02:56:12 PM »
Life force?
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Offline Zephyr

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Re: The elements
« Reply #13 on: July 03, 2009, 03:13:12 PM »
Aether, not to be confused with Ether, or Akasha/spirit is the sublime energy force that is the whole, that we are just a tiny fragment of, as is all life, vegetable, animal, or mineral.
You can liken it to the human body - this is made up of millions of cells that form 1 entity - You!
So it is with the universe - the universe is one body and we, each blade of grass, each grain of sand, are just cells within that entity - the universe, or akasha, or spirit, or Aether....
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Offline Grifthin

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Re: The elements
« Reply #14 on: July 03, 2009, 04:51:04 PM »
Ninja'd by Zephyr.
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"The Universe is a Tripartite: the sunlight of the material plane, the darkness of the spirit plane, and the twilight of the spaces betwixt the two." - Spirit Seer Iyanna Arienal

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